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In other words, which reading, 4 cubits and a span, or 6 cubits and a span, seems to have the most solid evidence for being the original reading? You most easily recognize a Nephilim observing its behavior. Hays says that a scribe copying the manuscript accidentally looked down at verse 7 and saw the number 6 (as in six hundred) and copied it into verse 4. One Final Item to Note. . Randy. The article by Daniel Hays suggests the heights for the average ancient Israelite mentioned in my paper (5-53), and he is quoting from Victor Matthews, Manners and Customs in the Bible (1991), p.3. yeah I could easily say they looked like they were in the giant category. Lets start with Genesis 6:4 in one of the Modern versions, the NIV: Genesis 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those daysand also afterwardwhen the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. Simply that we are often too hasty in our judgment of what is going on in the text. 21:19 has suffered in transmission. Randy, I would LOVE if a follow-up to this would ever be possible. How tall were the Nephilim | Christian Forums I can see that being a temptation to Lahmis parents. Hi Dave, The verse from Numbers 13 mentioning giants, or in Hebrew the Nephilim were nothing more than a lie. He enlisted the help of author Douglas Van Dorn, who had just written a book on the subject, to guide the project. Thats whats going to happen in the future when someone digs up former NBA players in 100 years! Look at Robert Wadlow (the one mentioned who was 8 feet, 11.1 inches tall at last measurement). At its center is a mound of loose stones over 65 feet in diameter and over 16 feet tall, covering a central chamber carved into solid rock. Im glad you found the article and comments informative. 17:5 He had a helmet of bronze on his head, and he was armed with a coat of mail, and the weight of the coat was five thousand shekels of bronze. Check out LA Marzuli and youll see 61-9 is not Goliaths height. Thank you for making what sounded like a complex issue clear and understandable. It seems possible that cross genetics of either race combine together would make some interesting football and basketball players at time of life. Michael Heiser in his book, The UnSeen Realm, points out that Ogs bed size may actually be a reference to the Babylonian god Marduk whose bed was described by these same dimensions. They are descendants from Ham. Goliath had much experience in war trainings a very tall man as a giant in Israel interpretations but true that King Saul was head and shoulders over every man stating he was just a tall man but with Goliath a GIANT. It is no doubt a very reliable tradition of the text so thats one reason. This is just one of the many problems with the story of David and Goliath. But to date the evidence points to the normal height of individuals being what I stated in the article5-5.3ft. a grasshopper is not a foot shorter. Hi Morris, It stretches all reason and reality to say that the Nephilim were 130 or 450 feet tall. The tallest Nephilim are found in low-gravity environments; since their extreme height makes them unstable, the tallest Peter. This category only includes cookies that ensures basic functionalities and security features of the website. A rough estimate of Ogs size can be made based on a reference to the size of his bed which is described as nine amot long and four amot wide. I appreciate his work. Biblical characters did often have more than one name as do monarchs. One such prehistoric serpentine mound is Serpent Mound in Ohio. Also, that only eight people and some animals survived the flood is affirmed circa five times in the Bible so that Nephilim did not survive and there is no indication that they, somehow, returned. I appreciate your research on this subject. 4. The fact is that the Hebrew version (MT) and the Greek version (LXX) have different readings. In other words, he argues that the text should read 4 cubits and a span (you can find one of his articles, a response to Billington, here). Where does one derive that figure? The Biblical measurement of an amah, literally the length of a forearm, is 9.2 inches, which would mean that Ogs bed was over 14 feet long and over six feet wide. 56,899 Views. While we cannot be positive that Goliath had this condition, it seems to indicate he stood out significantly from his peers and was such a terrifying sight that he far surpassed even those soldiers who were above average in height (bigger and taller) than their peers (i.e. Others, however, raised on the traditional story of David defeating the giant Goliath, would almost consider it a sacrilege to suggest that Goliath might be in the 6 foot range, as opposed to the 9 foot range. Israelites, Edomites, Moabites, Ammonites, all shared a common ancestry, as the Bible makes clear. God bless! Any non-standard unit of measurement is sure to have fluxes and variations. Nephilim The Bible does record some apparently healthy giants, but these are not the long-lived pre-Flood people. The most well-known giant is Goliath, whose height is described as "six cubits and a span". (1 Samuel 17:4) This would make him well over nine feet tall . Goliath was known as Goliath of Gath, and the people Gath seem to be a clan of giants. Especially if the people have a past history of being part of that bordering culture. I also respect your patience with those in the blog who questioned your faith and didnt seem to read everything you had written based on the different evidence (MT, DSS, & LXX). 1. Of course, they might also choose to adopt a Philistine name such as Goliath.The Anakim are also said by the biblical writer to have remained in Gaza, in Gath, and in Ashdod (Josh. If you check the Hebrew text, Goliath is never referred to as a giant. 11:22). Thanks! The Dead Sea Scrolls of this passage along with the Septuagint version (which was used by the early church as their Scripture) both read 4 cubits. It might be interesting to note that one of Davids men killed as the scriptures say 2 lion of men and a lion in a snow storm then mention the killing of an Egyptian 5 cubits in height. Olive Gardens one of my favorite restaurants. Mostly through Patterns of Evidence and a YouTube video I saw when he talked about the need to revise Egyptian chronology. And what about the enormous grape bunches they carried out. How do you expect a guy who cant hardly walk to be a soldier? Problem solved, Goliath grows from 66 to approximately 99. the gauls were about a foot taller than the Romans and the Romans didnt run away from conquering Gaul. The Septuagint (LXX) has frequently been shown to have a more original reading in various places in the Old Testament. The Inspiration Networks are considering the distribution channel for the film and expect to release Angels & Giants: The Watchers & Nephilim this fall. It is certainly possible that the size of his bed suggests he was of unusual height. I appreciate your reading of the article and your reply. Their joints, were larger; their bones thicker. Sauls answer to David as to why he cannot fight him references Goliaths skill as a warrior, not his height. mydigitalseminary Being he was an Egyptian you might use the Egyptian cubit of 18 to 20. This is a well-known copying mistake called parablepsis (a looking by the side). Humans are NOT like whales who live in the ocean You mention that the word giant is not mentioned in 1 Samuel 17. Unfortunately, he doesnt offer any evidence. Interesting thoughts about the Egyptian Craig. Among these are the belief that the biblical writers did not intentionally distort their history. Therefore, it is not disingenuous to speak about people of the Ancient Near East and include Israel in that category. 1Sam. I would recommend going back in time and finding the actual truth, once and for all. Massive human head in Chinese well forces scientists to rethink Did you know that there are two different biblical traditions for Goliaths height? Saul was a head taller than the other Israelites. Im sure Goliath was massive. Anytime there is a suggested reading that is different, I want to hang on to the reading of the MT. This dual arrangement, circles of stones near a serpentine mound, appears in several places around the world where it was known to be used as a necropolis for this form of burial, Landa explained. How does someone reach the conclusion that the average man was 55? In their insatiable hunger, the monstrous Nephilim eat all of mankind's food, and when the food runs out, I totally agree. A few thousand years later, when the average height of a man had increased, the original height of the mythological Goliath was inadequate. You and others in the blog have sparked my interest. The concept of Nephilim still leaving among us today comes mostly from the spiritual community. Thank you for your very kind and encouraging words! You obviously think otherwise, but the grasshopper comment is indeed ancient hyperbole. plus is not a giant. How does this theory answer OG of Bashan and his 9 cubit x 4 cubit beadstead? I think the term Giant means Giant. Nephilim, in the Hebrew Bible (the Christian Old Testament ), a group of mysterious beings or people of unusually large size and strength who lived both before and after the Flood. Average height of Jewish men in David's time is said to be about 5 feet tall. Likewise Elhanan the one who killed Goliath, is simply the birth name of King David. So for me, the 8ft+ or 9ft theory is acceptable since we also found many 7ft+ bodies too on the neighbor islands too. That is the way we all learn. God bless! This second figure seems impossibly low for a giant like Goliath and we might be tempted to automatically throw it out as a possibility. Comparative height chart Notes: The height of Goliath varies between the various witnesses (manuscripts) to 1 Samuel 17.4 between 4 1/2 In todays world we do have some really tall people, but I wouldnt consider ANY of them as giants. The bones would have later been interred in a huge serpentine structure of loose stones adjacent to stone rings. 1. 4. Ive given the reasons why I believe the LXX has the original reading. So how large is large? It would be akin today to saying that the only people who live in New York City are Americans, or the only people living in London are English. Thanks for writing. Goliath my not have been 30 ft tall but he was definitely the normal size of a man. As to your final point. Please prove your assessment that the average height of the ancient Hebrews were only 5 or so. It is also amazing to me that the basic reading at any level of understanding leads us to Gods central message to His people, difficult differences in culture notwithstanding. For example, consider the following two passages: Enoch 6:1-2: 1. His son King Solomon was originally called Jedidiah. Who Are the Nephilim and Did They Escape the Flood? "Giant" Thank you, Randy. Are there descendants of the Nephilim in the world today? Those look to be defenses akin to Giants. The reference to Rapha in 2 Samuel 21 doesnt really mean giant, although the Rephaim were considered to be a very tall people. It also has nothing to do with whether I believe there couldve been gigantic people in that time. I dont know about the discovery of people in the 7ft+ range in the US, but no such discoveries have been made in the Middle East to this point. So. Thanks for your extensive research and knowledge. Semyaza, Shemyaza, Semjaza, Semiaza, Samyaza, Shemhazai. How an a soldier fight if they cant hardly walk? However, while 1 Samuel 17 does not call Goliath a giant, there are two other passages that infer he was a descendant of the Nephilim. Rudy Landa, a senior producer and director at The Inspiration Networks and company CEO David Cerullo decided to make the film three years ago, their enthusiasm for the subject fueled by their love of the Bible. Check out the work of David Rohl. 6 feet tall). The point is, however, that here is a scholar who is convinced by text form that the Chronicles reading is legit. Thanks for your comment and question. Why? Depending on the size of an individual, the common cubit would be even less than the royal cubit. To The Most High be the Glory, If Goliath had been 30 feet tall the out come would have been the same. If you click on the links in my article you will find the information you are requesting. None of it adds up to a story worth telling if he was only 69. Thank you for not hammering those less equipped in the English language (me included) We present the evidence and we invite people to research to reach their own conclusions, Landa said. If we all see its Goliath was bigger than a re guar men in that time and even bigger than Saul otherwise it would not emphasize his height, but the whole point is that the spirit of GOD was with David, so the stone was purposely driven by GOD not the man David. There are theories that claim that Og was buried at Gilgal Refaim, Landa said. Moshe Garsiel in his recent commentary on 1&2 Samuel presents an interesting argument that Elhanan is another name for David. Image from Arik. Please disregard any other race of people in your response such as Egyptians, Asians, Mongolians, Ashkenazians, or Khazarians. And to wield a spear with a 15 pound head on it. Billington disagrees with Hays on the height of Goliath, believing instead that Goliath is in the 8 foot range. There are videos of a Chinese man thats a giant hes 7 something in the video and its not a cgi trick. Where Will the Battle of Armageddon Be Fought? It is a misinterpretation of Scripture to take statements that are hyperbolic and make them literal. Im 62 and used to work for a man who was 67, I wouldnt like to get in a fight with him. It should be recalled that Goliath is from Gath. . If Goliath was 61 he would have only been about 3 inches taller than Saul (if that), not really a giant. I'd kinda like to see something akin to "cattle shows" where the most well bred wild nephilim win, maybe according to some hidden judging system where different judges (which change for each show) like certain traits and body types more, and the player has a few days ahead of time to know who the judges will be. Of course there are people who take the He was 10 feet tall, because thats what the Bible says people who cant comprehend biology. Could the later manuscripts have inflated the number because the cubit of their day was calculated smaller (thus needing to increase the cubit in the manuscript)? 5 total brothers as David knew when he killed Goliath that Goliaths brothers would come after him. Sorry for bad spelling. Some say Goliath stood at four cubits and a span which is about 7.80 feet (2.38 Bible Places Other markings indicate star risings. The Smithsonian Museum would appear to have been the most notorious thief and misappropriated loser of relics and national archives in the history of the world. Thanks for your comments Mark. 21:19. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. For some, a person 99 is out of the realm of reality, and they would therefore be inclined to the more reasonable reading of 6 9 61. Gen 6:4 is the only reliable reference to Nephilim and it does not provide us a physical description so that we have no reliable biblical physical description of them. Project roadmap and suggestions? :: Breeders of the Nephelym: That certainly could be a possibility. No I believe he was 9 foot plus as even today we have 8 foot plus people and they are not descendants of Giants just hyperthyroid cases mostly.t. and references from exodus state that the Israelites were as grasshoppers in their sight. Well heres the thing. Competent scholars use this kind of language frequently, recognizing the connections between Israel and these other nations. and they can be found all over the world. The Nephilim in Numbers Chapter 13 Some argue against the 4 cubits and a span reading by saying if Saul was head and shoulders taller than anyone else in Israel, and the average Israelite was 5 feet. Archaeologists are quite responsible in logging and preserving their finds. Lahmis parents had actually visited an Olive Garden restaurant just across the border and Lahmis mother really loved the breadsticks. However one man killing a thousand men is as God puts it a pure work of God. No less a scholar than David G. Firth argues in his Apollos Commentary on 1&2 Samuel that it can be shown that the Chronicles text form is earlier (p. 508, note on v. 19). In this article I am attempting to look at the evidence and decide which reading 4 or 6 cubits, seems to be correct. The fact that his coat of chain mail was 125 pounds alone Now Im sure there are some of us that could put that on our shoulders, but do you think you can fight like that? If someone was say 4 feet taller? WebAsk everyone to send you their heights and compare them together on our crisp and clean chart! Yes, that may be true Peter. First, we should not judge Goliaths height based on modern standards, but rather on ancient Near Eastern standards. They are present in movies, series, books and comic books. Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. My desire is to examine the text and to the best of my ability to understand which reading is the most likely. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. You have been a gentleman with your responses and it is clear you have an unbiased view which is great! We should allow the same for ancient peoples and their languages. https://partners.faithlife.com/click.track?CID=431490&AFID=464012, Bible, Archaeology, Travel with Luke Chandler, The earliest Hebrew manuscript, 4QSam(a), which dates to the middle of the first century BC, reads 4 cubits and a span. Hays points out that this particular manuscript, The major early Septuagint texts all have this reading. Hays also notes that Josephus refers to Goliaths height as 4 cubits and a span.. At 6 feet, 8 inches (202 centimeters) tall, the man would have been a giant in third-century A.D. Rome, where men averaged about 5 and a half feet (167 centimeters) tall. The Book of Enoch is quite explicit about the fact that the original Nephilim i.e., the ones that appeared prior to the flood were the children of rebellious angels and human women. Males averaged about 1m 75 cm; females 1m 60 cm, Neanderthals were considerably stronger and tougher. The tallest man I believe is 89. Humans and dinosaurs never lived at the same time. And that would really only be a dog vs man height to a man vs someone that was as tall as a man vs a dog. WebMany texts have confirmed Goliath as a Nephilim. A six-foot tall man cant possibly appear to be tall enough to be an intimidating danger to the Israeli army. Rapha is the singular of Rephaim, who are a people that dwelt in Canaan and east of the Jordan long before Israel ever came into Canaan (e.g., Deut. Calvary Chapel Cork Not a perfect example, but still appropriate. 6 foot king as a giant, its doubtful 6 additional inches would suddenly make goliath the super intimidating giant. Archaeologists generally place the beginning of the construction as early as 3500 BCE. However, if we adjust the size of the cubit and span to what would be more likely for an ancient Israelite, then, according to Billing, 16.5 inches would be a reasonable cubit and 7.5 inches would equal a span. This website uses cookies to improve your experience. But I must admit that the other is, because Im used to the readings found in the MT (which admittedly is not a good reason). And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those All the other Philistine giants had Philistine names. I would recommend reading his book.). These pictures of so-called Nephilim are dubious (see photo above on left). Lines in South America can only be fully realized from an airplane. I dont buy into this. This chart is more of percentile sizes between characters than actual set heights. The Nephilim of The Bible are very easy to recognize. Now imagine if he is the top fighter with the best weapons and armour? Thank you for writing. Thank you for your kind words Dr. Marcus. This theory is an attempt to do away with what the Bible says. As one scholar notes, the point of the story may be to show that tall Saul is the right candidate to face Goliath, but he is too fearful. If Goliath was but 4 cubit that would mean david didnt slay the tallest man in the world. I still stand by my other observations (1,2,3). Maybe the four cubits could be the measurements taken from Goliaths dead body. A final point I would make is that there are some scholars who believe that the text of 1 Chron. The 10 best Fields Of The Nephilim tracks | Louder - loudersound Thank you Mark. Hi Andre, We are, however, given his measurements and whether he was 4 or 6 cubits, he was still a big guy. Giants in the Bible: Who Were the Nephilim? - Learn Religions In fact, the last True giant is killed in Deuteronomy. Which makes them look like some kind of fairies. This was interesting and I agree with Hays to a point on this. In the end, what matters is that faith in, and zealousness for, YeHoVaH will lead us to victory and keep us humble: the battle always belongs to Him. The passage mentioning his fathers name has been clearly corrupted, leading to confusion. Height And even then, not every nation that came from Ham were giants. Im not an expert on all the discoveries ever made. I agree with what you said mark i dont care when in history a human was born 6ft. Descendants of Category 2. These are the heights we frequently hear referenced by pastors and teachers when commenting on 1 Samuel 17:4. Therefore, they excite the human mind and imagination. Brothers and sisters, when we read a headline that reads, Warriors annihilate Rockets in Game 6, we dont actually think that one basketball team committed violence against another. Sometimes the MT is the superior reading and sometimes the LXX is. Regarding 1 Samuel 17, as a number of scholars have pointed out, Goliath is never called a giant in this text. 3. Billington notes that an 18 inch cubit would mean the person was about 5 feet 8 inches (taller than most Israelites of this period).